Friday...

[cairistiona]

Yeah, pretty sure this was the look I laid on the poor flunky* at the Social Security Admin yesterday...



I'll spare you the details, but suffice to say that, in trying to do something as simple as get a replacement SSN card for Dink, since hers is lost somewhere, we ran smack into a big governmental bureaucracy FUBAR regarding Dink's citizenship. She *is* one, but we need another paper that 14 years ago we were specifically told we wouldn't need because, amongst other governmental incompetency, procedures have changed in the post 9-11 era. Thank you, Osama bin Laden. As if I didn't have enough reason to utterly despise Al Qaida. So now we're scrambling to figure out how to get said paper, and in the meanwhile, poor Dink might not be able to get her driver's permit until it's all sorted out, which could weeks or months or even an entire year, depending on what option for proof of citizenship we can get to work. We... have a lawyer on standby, just in case.

UGH.

Steve Rogers did not become Captain America for this. *sigh*

Update! God bless the DMV... we decided to give getting her permit a go, and they didn't even blink at the birth certificate stating she was born in China. The gal said, "Well, this is a Missouri-issued birth certificate, right?" and I just immediately said, "Yes!" and she said that was enough. So... Dink can learn to drive while we're getting the rest of the government straightened out on her citizenship status.

*to be fair, said flunky was sweet and spent a good 45 minutes trying to find some way to wrestle the computer into allowing him to show she was a citizen, including consulting with supervisors etc etc. He was immensely apologetic when it all failed to work though no fault of his own. So at least it wasn't a case of an uncaring bureaucrat shoving us aside to get to the next customer, small comfort though it was.

Comments

[mikononyte.livejournal.com]

omg what a hassle!

I do hope you can get this wrangled in good time; it is not fair to parents or child for the change of a government and heavens! you'd think they'd accept the adoption papers!

(hugs to you and Dink and drums starting out here for a better, faster solution)

[cairistiona7.livejournal.com]

Thank you. The entire situation is so made of "UGH" that it's rather hard to believe. And we're not alone in our dilemma... there's a lot of people who adopted in the years before the immigration laws were finally turned into practical "Here's your citizenship certificate" action. We're all only finding out about this when our kids have reached the driving age or start applying for jobs and filing FAFTA for college and getting the "you need proof of citizenship" reaction. We fell through the cracks, I guess, between the law being enacted and the paperwork being administered....took the gummint 3 years to finally decide, "Hey, we should issue these kids citizenship papers as proof!" And of course, no one ever bothered telling all of us who didn't get the paper.

Again, ugh.

[engarian.livejournal.com]

As a naturalized citizen of the US, I feel for you. I know that if I lost my documentation I also could be without a home and nation. Very frightening and surely frustrating on your end. I hope things get sorted out quickly.

- Erulisse (one L)

[cairistiona7.livejournal.com]

I didn't realize you were a naturalized citizen. Good for you, and yes, it's scary to think about it just being a set of documents that stand between you and the border. *sigh* What really bothers me is that apparently we have to send along Dink's Chinese passport, which has the proper visa designation, with the application. That's the ONLY thing we have proving her citizenship... scary to turn loose of it and risk it getting lost in the mail or whatever.

This really has my stomach churning, I can tell you.

[engarian.livejournal.com]

That's what Registered Mail is for. Hand delivered from one person to the next with each step documented. You might want to check with an attorney also and see if there might be any other option than sending the original irreplaceable document along with the application. I'd be pretty nervous about it too, so I don't blame you at all.

- Erulisse (one L)

[cairistiona7.livejournal.com]

Yes, we'll be checking into all the possibilities, and Registered Mail is definitely how we'd send it. That was, of course, how we sent some of our original adoption paperwork (some things were more time-sensitive so were sent certified). There's still a worry it might get lost once it reaches whatever facility processes these requests, though, because humans are, well, human.

[ysilme]

Ugh, that is a frightening worry! *hugs* Can you at least make a cetified/official copy of the passport to keep with you?
I have acquired my university degrees abroad, and if I lose the original documents I would not have any proof of having passed the exams and holding the degrees/titles. The documents are in a bank safe, of course, but I am also official copies at home, at my parent's and in their bank safe, and scans online just in case - and losing a degree would be rather harmless in comparison, I think.

[lindahoyland.livejournal.com]

How utterly tiresome for you. How old do you start driving in the USA? It is 17 here. Red tape is a nightmare!

[cairistiona7.livejournal.com]

Tiresome and stressful, definitely. *sigh*

I don't know if driving laws are the same in all states, but at least here in Missouri, when you reach the age of 15, you can get what's called a "learner's permit", which allows a person to drive legally on the streets as she learns to drive, so long as she's accompanied by an immediate family member who's a licensed driver, or a licensed driving instructor (many schools offer drivers' ed as part of the curriculum, if their budget allows). There are all kinds of instruction-hours requirements that if met, at 16, you then can apply for an intermediate license, which has quite a few restrictions like not being allowed to drive alone between the hours of 1 am and 5 am, and not being allowed to have more than one passenger under the age of 19, etc, all designed to keep teens from killing themselves and others on the road. There's also more instructional driving hours required, most notably 10 hours nighttime driving while accompanied by a licensed driver. Then, if you've met all the intermediate license requirements, at 18 you can apply for the full driver's license.

[ysilme]

Ah, this answers part of my question, too. Wow, this is really early for me. *g* When I grew up we could start taking lessons about half a year before we turned 18, but it was and still is only possible to learn how to drive with a driving school, in a car with a licensed instructor who has pedals and mirrors on her/his side. You're allowed to drive on your own only after you have your permit, and you couldn't get it sooner than at your 18th birthday.
Since a couple of years you can start a year earlier and get a limited permit at age 17, but are only allowed to drive with a licensed driver at your side, and only on German territory, not abroad. Younger people can get permits for small mopeds already at age 14 and can get a permit for driving farming and forestry machinery at age 16, but they are not allowed to drive on official roads.

But then, as I understand, we seem mostly to have a much different traffic situation in Germany/central Europe.

[nefhiriel.livejournal.com]

Aww, that has got to be so frustrating. I hope you get it all sorted out soon! >.<

[cairistiona7.livejournal.com]

It's immensely frustrating. *sigh* The stupidity of the whole thing just completely flummoxes me.

[mrowe.livejournal.com]

Oh argh, that is totally frustrating - hope you get it sorted asap

[cairistiona7.livejournal.com]

Some good news: the Dept of Motor Vehicles accepted her birth certificate and is letting her test. Whew. Still have to sort out the rest but at least she can be learning to drive in the meantime.

[shirebound]

Whew, what a relief that must be! Dealing with bureaucracy has to be one of the most soul-sucking activities out there.

That's an EXCELLENT gaze from His Majesty. Very useful in many situations, I'm sure.

[cairistiona7.livejournal.com]

Soul-sucking is the perfect description!

I'm hugely relieved about the driver's license issue; now to work toward getting the rest resolved so I can be 100% relieved.

[imbecamiel.livejournal.com]

Yaaaay, glad that got sorted out! Man, it is SO aggravating when bureaucratic computer-controlled systems have no allowance for the fact that... not everyone fits into the neat little boxes.>.<

(Also, lol, "Steve Rogers did not become Captain America for this" and other variations on that theme = one of my favorite ways of expressing disgust/outrage these days. *g*)

[cairistiona7.livejournal.com]

Yaaaay, glad that got sorted out! Man, it is SO aggravating when bureaucratic computer-controlled systems have no allowance for the fact that... not everyone fits into the neat little boxes.>.<

YES! That's exactly it. We've not done *anything* illegal, but the law as it was written and then later put into effect left us, and many others, in no-man's land. Ugh.

(Also, lol, "Steve Rogers did not become Captain America for this" and other variations on that theme = one of my favorite ways of expressing disgust/outrage these days. *g*)

It is *such* a handy phrase when the government has its, well, head up its you know what. :/

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

Oh good grief! Thank goodness the DMV are more sensible.

[cairistiona7.livejournal.com]

Something that's exceedingly out of character for them, but I'll take what I can get at this point!

[bluegerl.livejournal.com]

He's hypnotising!!! Another 'gift' from the Gods.

Can't you send a "Certified Copy" of the Passport - signed that it is so by a Notary or Bank official or someone of 'Importance'. It would then be a Legal Document and they should accept it.

I shouldn't let that passport out of your own hands if you can help it. Lordy, it's precious.

Try getting divorced as a Brit in France when other half is 'lost' in the UK! gaaaahhhh.

[cairistiona7.livejournal.com]

We're looking into how to do it and whether they'll accept certified copies, etc.

Try getting divorced as a Brit in France when other half is 'lost' in the UK! gaaaahhhh.

Yeah, that's full of "ugh", too!

[claudia603.livejournal.com]

bureaucracy is such a headache!!!!! I'm glad it got resolved in the end, whew!

[cairistiona7.livejournal.com]

Well, partially resolved, at least. I'm very glad she was able to get her driver's permit. She can at least be learning to drive while we work on getting the rest of the paperwork in order.

[estelcontar1.livejournal.com]

I see I was only partial successful in my wish for a stress free Thursday. What a bummer! I'm keeping all my fingers crossed you get that paper you were specifically told you wouldn't need without too much trouble, no need for a lawyer, and sooner than you expect.

At least you had no trouble at the DMV where you expected some. Go figure! Congratulations to Dink on her driver's permit.

Aragorn is rightly not happy with your predicament, I see.

[ysilme]

Meh, what a frustrating, annoying hassle! Things like these should so not be allowed to happen - bureaucracy really is worse than Melkor at his worst, isn't it? But I'm glad the most important issue for Dink right now is solved for the moment. Best of luck for the rest! *crosses fingers*

If I may ask, why does she need a certificate to be allowed to learn how to drive? We get our permit only at the end of the learning, and to be admitted at a driving school only the identity card is necessary, and a proof of residence only when you are not living in the town your school is in.